The Ipoker Bot Problem Part 4

Posted: June 15, 2012 in General
Tags: , , , , , , , , ,

So ive finally managed to get round to the final part about the bots on Ipoker. Im going to continue on from the last part and the website address that i was given by William Hill support. Now the link i was given was meant to be to some sort of Poker school that had got all these hoards of players playing the same kind of robotic style and after a bit of fishing round i managed to translate the page and have a look round on the website.

What i found shocked me. In one of the forums was a topic that was clearly discussing people using bots and one poster went as far to say they(the affiliate) had been contacted by the Ipoker network and warned not to use their bots for longer than 8 hours at a time because it was starting to arise suspicion. Obviously i brought this to WH attention and posted about it on the 2+2 forums. Within hours the thread had disappeared from the Poker schools website. this just says to me that Ipoker know exactly what is going on and are clearly turning a blind eye to it.

Why Would They Turn A Blind Eye?

Thats a question that i asked my self many times and it wasnt until i started messing around with a few figures that it actually started to make a lot of sense. Below is some of them workings out that i posted on 2+2.

Just to put a little bit more in perspective and in no way are the figures that im going to show probably anywhere near accurate but this should give you a fair idea of the sort of money these bots are earning the sites.

Now im not sure that all 40 that i have got on my list are all used by the same owner but i am presuming they probably are due to not playing against each other. So straight away that should give you a very good idea what sort of money is involved in this just to bankroll them.

Right ive gone off the figures that i use in regards to my rake.

Im saying that the bots generate about $1.50 per table, per hour. This is less than what i earn because they play a bit tighter than me so ive reduced it a bit.

At this very moment there are 24 USD tables running and at the moment there is one of these players sat at 17 of these tables. Again my figures are going to be on the low side because when i add the other tables in theres 64 running and they are sat at 29 of these tables.

The bots collectively seem to be running all day round so if they average 17 tables for the day then they will make $36 per day per table.

So if between them they run on 17 tables for a day then they will rake $612 per day.

If we then average that out on a 30 day month they will rake $18360 per month.

We have to assume they have a 50% rakeback deal so per month it will make the owner $9180.

Some things to consider though:-

At peak times there are more than the number i have used running.

I have also not included Euro and GBP tables in my equations to keep it simple.

You have to remember that each and every one of the bots lose money so i would suspect that the actual profit is at least half of the money that they get back in RB.

Going on that its pretty easy to see why some sites turn a blind eye to the bot.

So hopefully that just gives a little bit of an idea about the figures involve and also gives a very good reason as to why Ipoker cant afford to remove these bots from their rooms.

The Players And Exploiting Them Like A Boss

Now ive decided not to list all the players in my list but i will list some of the main ones that i had just to give people an idea. So for anyone wanting to check them out on PTR here`s a few to be on with along with a few of their stats when i was actively tracking them:-

Demsen 17 Vpip 14 PFR 5AF 1.6M Hands Down $5K

Gaivers 17 Vpip 14 PFR 5AF 1.6M Hands Down $3K

judged66 17 Vpip 14 PFR 6AF 588K Hands Down $2.5K

kochancha 17 Vpip 15 PFR 5 AF 540K Hands Down 1.2K

lowride72 17 Vpip 14 PFR 5 AF 472K Hands Down $2.7K

moshalexx 17 VPIP 14 PFR 5 AF 500K Hands Down $1.7K

Silleks 17 VPIP 14 PFR 5 AF 1.7M Hands Down 2.7K

Now i could go on and on but you probably get the picture. I have about 50 players like this and yes a lot of players stats look imilar but i could add in 3bet/4bet/CC/Cbet/WTSD and they all are very similar.

Funny thing is that each and every one of them is up when you take in to consideration their RB deals.

These players are all playing 6max and to be honest they got tougher and tougher to play against and they do play a pretty solid pre flop game so it was a case of coming up with ways to make money off them by exploiting them. So it was a case of playing a lot of pots with them and getting in some spots to see how they react and how best i could make money off them. I ended up with a long list of ways to exploit them along with a load of notes about how they play, heres a few of them:-

Flat raise in CO and then backraised with AK after i squeezed – So as you can see here they arnt just playing a really simple style they are capable of mixing it up a bit.

Seen them 3bet AK and then not bet the flop oop after missing – this became a common theme for them and it was really easy to bleed them dry in 3bet pots because they played so face up simply because they had no choice because they cant read opponents so it was hard for them to not leak money yet i exploited them so hard because they tried not to get exploited.

folding B V B when i make it $1 –  this was NL20 so thats a big raise but the problem was that they had a ridiculously high 3bet B V B and then an insanely high 5 bet so it was hard to make money off them by making normal sized raises.  I discovered the 5x raise would get folds by everything but premiums and even then they would only flat with 88-QQ/AKand raise only KK/AA, the rest got folded equaling lots of profit for me.

if they 3bet to $2.50 they are folding mainly when i make it $6 – Their 3bet sizing is the thing that makes them obvious to spot as it is always on the large size, once again though i discovered $6 seemed to be the optimal amount to stop them 5bet bluffing so it was a case of make it smaller when i had premiums to let them bluff an make it bigger when i wanted to get them to fold.

they will raise min bets with air – This was a fun one. they play quite face up post flop because their cold calling range is just about PP`s so they fold over 60% to cbets so the times i hit i could min bet and get them to raise with air and then most of the time they would fire the turn which was great fun.

stab at orphaned flops and fold to min raise – Again an example that they are capable of making some plays but again this was easily exploitable because they would simply fold to a min raise.

$0.70 raise is a premium – they did this for a while which i though was hilarious because its so readable and i had some fun 3betting and 5bet shoving over them when it was obvious they were weak because of their open size.

Again thats just a sample of some of the stuff i had on them to exploit them and take their cash.

Conclusion

I put my money on Willam Hill because i wanted to feel that it was safe after the Full Tilt debacle, I ended up leaving Ipoker thinking it was one of the most shady sites that i could ever imagine playing on. Seriously anyone thinking about putting money on any of their sites really wants their heads examining.

To make things worse it looks like recently some of the bots have had a large profile change and some of them are now winning at the tables and if im honest i wouldnt put it past the network themselves to be running these bots to try and generate traffic to their sites. I would love to see the Ipoker network fail miserably and with traffic dropping recently hopefully its going that way and if these articles stop even one player from signing up then i can only imagine thats a good thing.

Good luck all and thanks for reading.

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